I am sorry your adoption story was so painful. That is what happens when adoptions are forced or coerced as was often the case back when you placed. Luckily that is most often not the case today. Most girls that place are of college age or older. They make the decision on their own and what they believe is best for the child and they get to choose who parents their child if they decide they are not able.
As in anything in life some adoption stories are horrible and painful like yours, but there are just as many wonderful stories like ours.
My son's birthmom already had a child and decided she could not parent again at this point in her life. So not only were we blessed with a beautiful son, but she still gets to watch him grow up. We have become good friends and we send pictures and visit as often as we can. For both of us it is like our family has just grown to include each other and we will forever be connected by this awesome miracle.
The bottome line is in your case you wanted to keep your child and the decision was taken away from you which is wrong. But you have to realize that most women placing today are making the own decisions. They know what resources are available to them and either think it would be too hard or simply don't want to or can't parent at this point in their lives.
As an educated woman you should know better than to make the blanket statements that all adoptions are bad because your experience was that way. And I am sure your feelings are supported by many other adoptees and birthmoms, especially from the older crowd. But my feelings and experience have also birthmoms and adoptees behind them.
Many adoptees and birthmoms have emailed me wishing us luck and telling us how positive their experience was.
My life has forever been changed by adoption and I feel so blessed to not only have my son, but to also have his birthfamily in our lives and I am so glad that he will have them in his life too. I know they feel the loss, but they have also told us that they are so happy that they were able to help us start our family.
We gave a home to a baby that needed one, started the family we had been longing for and also gave piece of mind to a family that loved their child , but knew they couldn't raise him. Now they know he has a loving home and that he is well taken care of and knows who they are too. What is so wrong with that? ↓
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| Name: vbigelow | Date: Nov 26th, 2006 7:18 PM |
Happy,
What you describe is adoption through rose-colored glasses. I have read many, many examples from the professional literature that reveals another, a far bleaker side. Adoptees and birthmothers, even in situations where the conditions are optimal (as you describe, where there is openness and choice) are almost always damaged by the process, which can be manifested by certain characteristics, such as fear of abandonment. (This is one example, please don't fire back with a list of people you know who are adopted and don't have a abandonment issues). There is a feeling on both sides of loss and of not being good enough. In your birthmother's case, there was another child who will have to learn to cope with the loss of a sibling and the eventual knowledge that in his or her family children were dispensable.
In spite of what you tell me about how happy your BM is about her decision, I would be willing to bet that she has confidence eroding moments of grief and regret every day of her life that she shares with no one. She has to put up a good front and pretend it was a great thing she did, otherwise living with the decision would be unbearable. After all, she did something that is absolutely incongruous with our psychological and biological programming.
I believe that our society needs to step up to the plate and support women who have crisis pregnancies (who do not choose abortion) to parent their children, unless there are grossly extenuating circumstances, like chronic drug abuse; they are in jail or suffer from serious mental illness. It is not that I have no empathy for childless couples. I do. However, there are many, many orphaned and abandoned children in the world who need homes who could be adopted by childless couples. I don't hear a lot about that on these boards, largely, I believe do to cost and the unfortunate fact that many Caucasian couples do not want to consider a non-Caucasian child. We need to make that process easier, cheaper and to publicize success stories. This is a far better than glorifying and promoting the very unnatural act of taking a baby, who is choiceless BTW about losing its family of origin, out of its birthmother's arms and handing it over to another family. ↑ |
| Name: vbigelow | Date: Nov 26th, 2006 7:19 PM |
| correction "due to cost" ↑ |
| Name: HappyMom | Date: Nov 26th, 2006 9:38 PM |
I am not looking at it through rose colored classes. I know their is pain and loss, and I worry about how my son with deal with knowing he was placed everyday. But knowing his bmom and that she loves him, and thatshe had drug issues she had to put behind her before having more children will help him. Every child has challenges.
But I also know women who knew they couldn't care for their child but kept them anyway because they were persuaded by people like you against their instinct. Some of these children end up neglected and abused because their birthmothers did not really want children, but were made to feel guilty if they decided to place them.
Which is better? There is pain and loss either way. Not ever woman wants to be a mother and all women don't automatically become mothers just because they give birth. Why do you think we always see women on the news drowning or killing their children without any verifiable mental illness. That kills me.
It takes a brave, strong woman to admit she is not ready to be a parent. There will always be issues for the child and bmom, but I would much rather a child be raised in a happy loving home and have some issues about their adoption. Then to be kept by parents who did not want them and be abused or neglected their whole lives.
Again I am not talking about women who are coerced such as you - that is wrong. Whenever I talk to a PBM I make sure she has considered all her options and she is not just doing it because she can't afford it. I have even given PBM resources to help them if they really wanted to parent.
And what you are saying about "orphaned" children in the world is mostly unfounded. Most orphaned children in other countries are not truly orphaned. They are abandoned by parents who are too poor to care for them. And instead of being placed by adoption like we can do here, they are put in orphanages where they receive a very low quality of care. How is that any better than choosing a loving home for your child yourself?
And I know my bmom cries and griefs, we talk about it often. But she also knew that she had a drug problem which could lead to neglect of the baby, so even though it was painful she mad the right choice for him because at that point she was strong enought to turn away from the drugs. And FYI, we are caucasian but our son is not. And tomorrow we are going to meet another little non-caucasian boy to adopt who was abandoned by his parents because they did not want the responsibility.
I understand your thoughts from your experience, but it is time for you to look at it from another perspective too. ↑ |
| Name: HappyMom | Date: Nov 26th, 2006 9:40 PM |
| Sorry for all the typos ↑ |
| Name: vbigelow | Date: Nov 26th, 2006 10:53 PM |
Happy,
I am glad to know that you are facing the fact that there are issues. Many will not. They just see adoption as a wonderful, natural, unselfish choice that allowed them to parent when nature would not. The child you adopted and his Bmom will fare better because you have the insight that you do. Unfortunately, the child she is raising may suffer (if he/she is typical) when he/she is able to comprehend that a sibling was "given away" by his mother. He/she may start to wonder when he/she will be abandoned, too. The world won't be a safe place anymore. I feel sorry for that.
You warned me against making blanket statements or broad generalizations and then you engaged in some very blatant inferential inductive reasoning yourself. Not all of the women who find themselves not ready or willing to parent do a bad job. Some find the resources, in fact many do. However, I agree that some women do an abysmal job raising children and the children have suffered. Some of those women wanted their children and didn't intend to do poorly. Some didn't want them, but kept them for whatever reason. Either way, these are generally women who do not have the resources to parent well. By resources, I am generally referring to money, but it can also mean education, parenting skills, support from other adults, knowledge about what children need. My position is that society should provide those resources rather than encouraging the women to relinquish their children or abandoning them to do a lousy job parenting . In my case, there was NO help and I BEGGED Catholic Social Services to help me. I was willing to be an au pair; to scrub floors; do anything to keep my child and even at 16, I can guarantee you I would have been a good mother (I had lots of experience with children and wanted my son. I turned out to be a very good mother to the children I raised). All CCS could tell me was how selfish I was to want to deny my child a mother and a father; what a bad girl I was for having had premarital sex. Yes, that was in 1970 and things have improved, but only in the sense that the Cider House doesn't exist anymore, not that women with crisis pregnancies are truly being offered the help they need to parent. They are still judged and encouraged to surrender.
As for the people on the news to whom you refer, the ones who kill their children; they are sick. That is not what we are talking about here; at least I'm not. I also said that my feelings about keeping children did not apply to people who have chronic drug problems or were in jail. Personally, I don't understand why your sons BM would not have given up the drugs for her child, and that is probably the same question the child you adopted will have. However, that is my bias showing through as I have resentments over having been raised by an alcoholic parent. (Wasn't I worth giving it up for, the inner child asks...yes, my adult self knows about alcoholism)
As for international adoption, I am aware that many of the children have been abandoned. Again, it says something awful about our global society when a mother has to choose to give her child over to others who have more money or watch it starve. Very sad commentary, indeed. However, what you didn't mention is that many of those children are institutions because the mortality rate during childbirth (and in general) and they are, indeed, orphans. I also think you are kidding yourself if you believe that most Caucasian people will opt to adopt a child of another race or ethnicity (yes, even in 2006!!!). Most of the people I've asked who have this attitude say it's because they don't want it to be obvious that the child was adopted. They think the child will do better if it looks like them. Actually, they are not entirely wrong; there can be issues, which can be mitigated if the APs are sensitive; they celebrate the child's culture and make sure he/she is exposed to other's who look like him/her. Or, as you are trying to do, adopt another abandoned/orphaned child of color.
You say that it takes a brave, strong woman to admit she is not ready to parent. I'm not sure these brave, strong women you are talking about really understand the gravity of the the decision not to parent.... whether that takes the form of keeping a baby and not providing proper care or surrendering it for adoption. I'm going to leave the former, as I've already addressed it. In the latter case, I don't think some of these young women who think oh well, surrendering is a hard thing to go through but a baby would have stood in the way of college, career, whatever REALLY, TRULY, are prepared for the day what they did hits them. I don't think they are prepared to face the lifetime of loss and grief. That's why I think they need a reality check from people like me.
Having relinquished a child NEVER gets easier. It is the worst guilt you can feel and I know if I live to be a hundred, I will never forgive myself for not finding a way to override my parents' will and neither will my son. His APs, on the other hand, will tell you what a blessing adoption was for them; a lot like what I read on every adoption discussion board I open. ↑ |
| Name: M | Date: Nov 26th, 2006 11:46 PM |
| I hope you continue to post on this forum. I think many girls facing unplanned pregnancy deserve to hear your story. ↑ |
| Name: HappyMom | Date: Nov 27th, 2006 2:31 AM |
I just think you are taking this in the wrong direction. Adoption is not this horrible evil thing you make it out to be. The bottom line is that for whatever reason there will always be women choosing adoption no matter how many resources are available to them. It is impossible for them to realize how it will impact their lives until it happens. Even telling other people about your experience won't change that. Just as telling smokers to quit or it will kill them doesn't work. People believe they are immune. Just as you probably knew sex could get you pregnant, but it wouldn't happen to you.
Perhaps what the real issue is that society needs to change what is happening in families across America today so that young girls like you don't feel lonely and unconnected to their family so that they go out looking for love before they can comprehend the consequences. Stop unwanted pregnancies before they occur. Then resources and adoption would not be such an issue.
Most birthmoms are wonderful and love the children they place and it makes me sad for their loss. I try to help our bmom in every way possible cope and I understand her grief as I have a counseling background. And I know how hard it is for her and the child she already has.
But you are kidding yourself to think that some women just don't care about their children. I have been contacted by attorneys who have women coming to them every year that are pregnant and flat out say that they do it for a living to have their food and rent paid by AP's. They are too selfish to care about the lives they are carrying. Would these women make good parents? I think it is deplorable, but it happens.
It is naive to think everyone is like you - that they want their child and just don't understand the loss. Some do and just don't care. The same thing with abortion, most women know they will grieve and experience a huge loss, but they still make that choice.
Adoption is so personal and I think it is important for all potential birthmoms to be counseled and talk to other birthmoms who have been there and hear their stories. But I think a lot of women do that to prepare themselves, but still make the decision to place. I know our bmom has a good friend that also placed at the same time. Her friend's experience was horrible. And while she feels sympathy for her she feels like she can't relate because our 'extended family' relationship has been so positive for everyone and yes those were her words.
Anyway I know we can go back and forth about this forever. All I am saying is that I see your point and how it affects all members of the triad, but you need to understand that is not everyone's experience.
Adoption is usually based on loss. An adoptive family losses the right the to have biological children, something most people take for granted. The amom usually will never know what pregnancy and labor is like - they miss a major live experience that most women have. The bmom losses a piece of herself in the child she places and the child losses his bio family and will always have questions no matter how open the adoption is. My point is that we all experience a loss, but we can come together to help ease each other's pain the best way we can. Adoptions will never cease to happen because there will always be a need because of one thing or another. Society will never be able to cure whatever issues are involved in preventing pregnancy or giving every woman with a crisis pregnancy the tools she needs. So all we can do is try to make it as positive experience for everyone involved as possible. ↑ |
| Name: HappyMom | Date: Nov 27th, 2006 2:34 AM |
| Wow these are some long posts :) ↑ |
| Name: me2 | Date: Nov 27th, 2006 2:30 PM |
Vbigelow, I understand exactly what you are saying.
Adoptees do deal with abandonment issues. Some on a large scale and some on a small scale. And yes, I agree that adoptive parents need to be aware of it and recognize it in their children.
As far as pregnant woman needing resources, they are out there for them to utilize. It is the bmoms who choose to place, lets not forget that. Society can do a better job. My taxes are being stretched very thin. Family's of pregnant woman need to step up? Society? How about the guys who get these girls pg and walk away? How about their families?
Quite blaming the adoptive parents for taking the children. They are not the bad guys here, put the blame where the blame belongs.
As far as all the children out there in need of a home. Why don't you adopt them? You may be like alot of others who are not infertile, and state, why me? Because I can have a baby on my own why would I want to take on another persons child? And one with issues such as abandoment, RAD, ODD, attachment issues. Some boards are set up for just that topic, you need to search them out, and others are set up for infant adoption, or international adoption, or special needs adoption. They are all over the place.
The orphaned children are not just for childless couples, others can step up too.
What ever your story is, I sympathize, and I have heard alot of them. Woman who were pg and forced to place, hold a special place in my heart and the heart of many. I understand their anger and I understand their lack of wanting to see good in adoption. Once again, put the blame where the blame belongs and stop go after adoptive parents.
Adoptive parents today are not like the adoptive parents of the past. That is largely because or openness and the subject of adoption is not taboo anymore. Adoptees today are nobody's secret. ↑ |
| Name: Lexie | Date: Nov 27th, 2006 4:55 PM |
| vbigelow, I am one of the few on here who have adopted foster children as well as one international, and she isn't Caucasian, plus had the honor of adopting privately too. I span all boundries, since I have birth children also. We were gifted with the knowledge and resources many years ago to be able to do all of this. Most of my children are all out on their own and we discuss adoption to great extent. None of them has felt abandoment or a feeling of loss. All of them acccept their siblings as siblings. Some have different cultures but all understand that is what makes the world go around. Like you I am older and have went thru the challenges of life. We decided when we were young to make our children the important things in our lives. You say people do not do foster adoptions, we did! But it is easier to start with a infant who doesn't have the problems from someone else resting on their shoulders. I wouldn't not trade these children for an infant but let me tell you it is damn hard to explain to a 8 year old girl why her mama and daddy can't be her mama and daddy anymore. And it is equally hard to get these issues in the open and keep them there so it won't be a problem. It takes a strong heart and a stronger will to handle foster adoption. It isn't for just anyone. Think of the problems your son has with all of the love and support that was shown him. Now think of how your son could of been if you had raised him and it turned out like so many others and he was taken from you at 6 instead of birth and given to strangers. Think of the issues he would have then and you will understand a fourth of what foster adoption parents face everyday. No one who has adopted keep rose-colored glassses on very long. Reality will kick them in the butt sooner or later. And the child isn't the only one who has issues. I've talked with adopted parents who worry if they have an open adoption that the child will love the birth parents more or will gradually go to that side more. Issues of loss is equal during this time. You love the kids and love your spouse and hope and pray everything goes the way it should. You get help when a problem crops up you don't wait until the child has life long issues. You are not at fault for your sons issues. He is now grown, he can go to theraphy or he can find something that works for him. Talking to others adopted helps some. An open mind within both families will help the most. When the choice wasn't yours to make you have to let it go. He had love and that is more than a lot of children get. ↑ |
| Name: vbigelow | Date: Nov 29th, 2006 5:10 AM |
Happy,
I do not characterize all adoptions as evil. I believe it is a good thing for orphaned and abandoned children or situations where drugs, mental illness are involved or the mother is in jail.(I think people who have children to sell them or to live off of the fees APs pay should lose their right to reproduce) I do not believe it is positive or natural for a child to be denied his family of origin simply because his/her mother was young or poor. I believe, in those cases, society and the family should do everything conceivable to keep the mother and child together. Period.
To Me2, I do not condemn or blame adoptive families for the types of adoptions with which I disagree. I blame a society that still points a finger at and condemns unwed mothers, families who don't accept responsibility and support their daughter (or son...the father). I only blame adoptive families who promise an open adoption and then renege. There are stories about these types of people on adoption forums all over the Internet.
I guess if I feel revulsion anyone, it is the types who have babies for profit, and young mothers who give their babies away because they aren't convenient. I remember a young girl from my parish who surrendered her baby. I had known this girl most of her life; she was in my liturgical dance group and my Girl Scout troop. When she got pregnant, it was after my reunion with my son. I think he was even living at my house (which was down the street from hers) at the time. Her mother, who was a good friend, explained that they were considering making an adoption plan for the baby and asked me to write her daughter a letter telling her how I felt about it as a result of my my experience. I didn't want to do it, but I thought that if it would keep a child with its family and spare that girl a lifetime of grief, so be it; I'd do it. I spent hours writing a letter, which I left in the door along with a copy of the book Birthmothers. I never heard a thing. I spilled my guts and nothing. Finally, I heard that she'd had the baby, a boy, which she had handed to an adoptive couple, left the hospital and was seen about eight hours later at a high school football game with her mother. I heard through the grapevine that they had done the deed because the mother decided she just couldn't raise another child and her daughter wanted to go to college. I also heard that the girl's aunt encouraged her not to even see her child and to pretend it didn't happen. I was sick to my stomach. I saw the mother outside of church the following Sunday, crying as though this was all so painful. I was sickened by her display. She made that choice for her own selfish reasons. To this day, I will not speak to that family. I remember seeing the girl at the high school when I went to attend my daughter's swim meets. She greeted me as though nothing was wrong. I wanted to spit in her face. I still cannot think of her without revulsion.
Me2, I am 52 years old and divorced; I work more than full time to support myself and to help my children still in college. No one is going to allow me to adopt an orphaned or abandoned child or to be a foster mother. (China, for example, will not allow single parents over 50 to adopt.) If that were a possibility, I certainly would consider it. ↑ |
| Name: me2 | Date: Nov 29th, 2006 6:01 AM |
| Thank you for that explanation. I wish we could fix the world, but all we can do is educate one at a time. ↑ |
| Name: HappyMom | Date: Nov 29th, 2006 10:21 PM |
| So what you are saying is that it is wrong for society to put judgements and criticism on young unwed mothers because it may or may not influence them to place their babies for adoption. But it is perfectly ok for you to judge,criticize and make the young woman at your church an outcast because she did not make the decision you wanted her to make. Are you not using the same tactics to try to get people to do what you think is right???? I hope you realize that is what you have just said. You are bitter and angry and that is clouding your ability to be rational and see things from others perspectives. ↑ |
| Name: vbigelow | Date: Nov 30th, 2006 8:47 AM |
We all have judgments of what is right or wrong. My value (which is shared by many) is that inconvenience is not a reason to deny a baby its family. I believe that it is unnatural to take a baby from its mother and it should not happen except in extraordinary circumstances. My belief is that a family that gives itself permission to ask a birthmother to lay her history out on the table for their perusal without any thought or concern for what that might do for her; that a mother who just hands her child over to strangers and goes to a football game because it is more important to her to play than to take responsibility for her child; these people deserve to be outcasts. They have spat in the face of the most sacred bond because it wasn't "convenient" for them to honor it. I have seen cats with more integrity.
All of our values are colored by our experience. I would be willing to wager, HappyMom, that your values, your very strong statements to me are founded in the heartbreak of infertility and not one hundred percent objective. Look in your heart for the basis for your statements before you judge mine as irrational, bitter and angry. ↑ |
| Name: HappyMom | Date: Nov 30th, 2006 3:13 PM |
| Just reread all your posts you are sounding so hippocritical. You said "No one will allow you to adopt or foster because you are single and older." Why don't you adopt an African American child from the inner city who has truly been orphaned due to drugs or gang violence. The US would not only allow that but help you do it. Don't make suggestions or give advice to other people when you don't even practice what you preach. ↑ |
| Name: me2 | Date: Nov 30th, 2006 3:56 PM |
Vi, What you are asking is for a change in all of society.
What are you doing here? You are only explaining your beliefs to a few people. Go join CUB or other organizations do your work there. Why are you pushing this? ↑ |
| Name: mommyinwaiting | Date: Nov 30th, 2006 6:45 PM |
vbigelow, I know a 36 year old mom who has two kids already and got pregnant again. She is the worst mom ever. While she was pregnant she stated she was going to place the baby for adoption, and she received financial assistance from the couple who was going to adopt her baby. Then at the end she decided to keep him. She does not want to do any of the work all she wants to do is sleep, so she keeps her other kids (age 12 and 15) home to take care of the baby. She has stolen from every member from her family and has even stolen money from her deceased brother social security check. She has an excuse for everything. She pretends to be sick so others will feel bad for her. She doesn't purchase clothes, furniture, birthday presents, Christmas presents for any of her children. Her family don't want the children to go with out so they pitch in together to make sure the kids have the things they need. This woman should not have had the first two (which are juvenal delinquents and have violent tendancies) let alone keep the last baby. Are you saying that this person should be a mom no matter what the consequences?
There are so many loving people out there that want to be a family, but can't for whatever reason. They are willing to go through the ups and downs of adoption. Yes they are happy to receive a baby as they should be. Adoption is not an easy experience for any involved but it is a positive solution for many who shouldn't parent or aren't ready or able to parent and for those who can't be parents on their own. There are no rose colored glasses for adoptive parents, but instead they take their experiences and turn them to be a positive instead of a negative. I am sorry at your losses and unhappiness, but even you can turn that around to a positive experience for others. You can adopt thru foster or even get involved with volunteer work to help others that may be in your exact same circumstances that wanted to keep their baby.
The adopting parents here are not praying on the innocent, they are hopeful people trying to network for support, for reference, and just maybe get a contact where they can meet someone who does want to place their child.
Even if I wasn't adopting, I would not want to see someone keep their child unwillingly and have that child suffer as a burden. And if someone makes the decision to place, they really should be commended for doing the best for their child, knowing the child will go to a loving and wanted home. ↑ |
| Name: vbigelow | Date: Dec 1st, 2006 6:07 AM |
Happy,
There is nothing hypocritical or inconsistent in my posts. Further, your statements around my ability to adopt an AA child are incorrect. I am too old to be considered. ↑ |
| Name: vbigelow | Date: Dec 1st, 2006 6:13 AM |
| I'm here to try to prevent a young mother who is in a difficult situation from being talked into a "solution" that she will regret for the rest of her life and one that will deny her child his family. ↑ |
| Name: vbigelow | Date: Dec 1st, 2006 6:15 AM |
mommyin waiting,
Your example is an outlier and not the type of person of which I speak. ↑ |
| Name: me2 | Date: Dec 1st, 2006 11:25 PM |
Vi, hang around a bit and you will see there is not anyone to save here. The ones you are looking for are not on this board. This board is a place for scammers to hide and have fun with everyone.
You will be wasting your breath all the way around here.
But hey, do what ever. ↑ |
| Name: vbigelow | Date: Dec 2nd, 2006 3:28 AM |
Me2,
How baiting people who wish to have children and cannot could be fun, is a mystery to me. Appalling, in fact. ↑ |
| Name: HappyMom | Date: Dec 4th, 2006 7:43 PM |
| Why did you choose not adopt prior to being 55? ↑ |
| Name: vbigelow | Date: Dec 5th, 2006 3:45 AM |
Happy,
I'm not 55, I'm 52; but that's a minor point.
I was going through a divorce, working full time and trying to earn my doctorate, which is necessary for the type of work I do. I didn't think it would be ideal.
I should add that when I was younger and a La Leche League Leader, I volunteered at a Sarah Fisher center with girls who kept their babies and wanted to breastfeed. For over a year I brought one of the girls and her baby to my home at least once per week. I took them places, including LLL meetings and they would spend the day. ↑ |
| Name: HappyMom | Date: Dec 5th, 2006 10:39 PM |
| Well in that case you have your facts wrong, most places in the US will let you adopt until 55 years of age, especially for the population I spoke of earlier. ↑ |
| Name: vbigelow | Date: Dec 6th, 2006 4:54 AM |
I'm not sure about that.
At any rate, i'm confused as to why things go turned around and we are now talking about me adopting an abandoned or orphaned child. I suggested that as a viable alternative to taking a child from an unwanted mother. I had four children and raised three (well, I've had the first for the last fifteen years, as well). ↑ |
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