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| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 3:24 PM |
| We should all just turn our computers off for good, and hide under our beds!....... ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 3:28 PM |
| You don't have to be sarcastic. I do not think it is bad advice for people to guard personal information from public view on the internet. ↑ |
| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 3:33 PM |
| I'm not being sarcastic.....The best thing to do is to turn the darn computers off and hide under our beds for safety......Is it practicle?????? NO, but its the best way to stay safe! Some days it sounds better than others!........If I had hidden under my bed, I would not have been scammed 4 times in 1 year...BUT, I would not have my handsome son, Collin, either! ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 3:35 PM |
| You seem like you make decisions based on emotions rather than common sense. If you have been scammed 4 times in one year, it is because you allowed it to happen. ↑ |
| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 3:42 PM |
| Well, dear, why don't you tell that to the agency that allowed it to happen.......And then you can shove your oppinions where the sun doesn't shine! Hope you have a great emotionless day!..... When you have your heart torn out and jumped on.... over and over again,,,,,you can tell me what you think about my emotions lady! Or are you a man??? You seem to have some pretty big BALLS! ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 3:47 PM |
| I think you are allowing yourself to be scammed. Online adoption fraud is a big business. I recommend licensed adoption agencies. *************************** The Baby Scheme — Online Adoption Fraud Tuesday , October 03, 2006 by Lis Wiehl For would-be parents hoping to adopt a baby, Joella Kern provided lots of hope and promises. Kern operated an adoption website that claimed its purpose was to “bring families together,” even posting pictures and descriptions of the babies available for adoption. At least seven different couples from across the country sent Kern a total of $44,000 in exchange for promises of a baby. But the babies were never delivered. Instead, Kern pocketed the money and told the couples the birth mother pulled out of the “adoption” at the last minute. After a federal investigation, it turned there were no birth mothers and no babies to adopt. In 2005, Kern was sentenced to two years in federal prison for wire fraud in what was believed to be the first Internet adoption fraud case of its kind in the U.S. [Source: “Adoption fraud nets 2-year term,” Spokane Spokesman-Review, July 30, 2005]. Internet adoptions have gained some momentum in recent years. Birth mothers who want to put their child up for adoption and couples looking for a child to adopt can search for one another on different websites, and the results can be easier, cheaper and faster than a traditional adoption agency. Unfortunately, adoption websites have also been a target for con artists like Kern. The schemes are varied, but always end with broken hearts for the adoptive parents. Some of these criminals promise their unborn child to more than one couple, while some just pretend to be pregnant. All have one goal in mind: extort as much money as possible from trusting couples who desperately want a baby. These con-artists prey on the most vulnerable emotions of prospective adoptive parents. But many states lack effective laws to prosecute for the specific injuries resulting from adoption fraud. Most states allow birth mothers to change their minds about adoption up until and even after the birth takes place. And typically, birth mothers are not required to give back any money received from adoptive parents if they do change their minds. Consequently, it is often up to the wronged couple to prove there was fraud — not simply a mother who changed her mind. Couples, be aware. Cases of adoption fraud are springing up all across the country, with some con artists scamming multiple couples at once. As much as we all want to trust in the goodness of others, adoptive parents already know they must guard themselves and their hearts. Couples using online adoption resources should increase that awareness ten-fold. If a birth mother match is made online, it is vital to research that person's background and have contact information for not just her, but also her family or friends. Make sure that information is accurate. Ask for medical documents and ensure the mother is taking proper care of herself. If a birth mother is reluctant to hand over medical records to you, encourage her to work with your attorney. Get legal advice. I cannot stress this enough. The intricacies of adoptions, whether online or through agencies, are best handled by a specialized adoption attorney. Laws regarding adoptions vary from state to state, so perspective parents should hire an attorney in the same state as the birth mother. Have an adoption attorney put everything into writing. And if the birth mother does need financial assistance, arrange for payments through your attorney. Prospective adoptive parents should be aware that providing money or services to birth parents is illegal in some states, and most others have laws about how much money can be spent. Hiring an attorney is also a step toward getting valid consent from a birth mother. Almost all states require consent to be in writing and either witnessed and notarized or executed before a judge or other designated official. But only a few states (Massachusetts, Utah, Mississippi and Nebraska) recognize consent as irrevocable. The majority of states allow a birth mother to revoke her consent, which leads me to my third piece of advice. Stay smart. Even though adoptive parents may want to approach a birth mother as a new friend or confidant, it is important to remember that at its basic level, the relationship is akin to a business transaction. Look for red flags, such as a birth mother continuously asking for money or refusing to give her medical information. Coaching adoptive parents to look for adoption fraud may reduce the numbers of crimes, but it is not going to discourage those who commit these despicable acts. States need to re-evaluate their adoption laws to allow prospective adoptive parents to seek return of fees. Prosecuting attorneys need more tools to investigate claims of fraud. While putting the con artist in jail may not make up for the heartache, it would provide some justice for couples. Adopting a baby should be a joyous occasion, not an excuse for con-artists to make a buck. ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 3:51 PM |
| Community Alerts Adoption Scams Bilk Victims, Break Hearts - The FBI Reports By Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Aug 28, 2006, 09:15 EMPTY PROMISES, EMPTY CRADLES Adoption Scams Bilk Victims, Break Hearts 08/28/06 The couples all had their hearts set on adopting a child. They were eventually introduced to an Indiana woman who agreed to provide a healthy baby from Russia…for a price. They started to get excited when they saw a picture of their promised child for the first time. Then, they anxiously waited for the day when they could finally meet the new member of their family. Only that day never came. They had been scammed. At least six couples in the Midwest were victimized by this adoption fraud scheme. And there are plenty more rip-offs like this one around the country: cases where birth mothers promised their unborn children to more than one couple or who weren’t even pregnant…where couples did business with phony domestic adoption agencies or facilitators…or where the international adoptions weren’t sanctioned by the home country or even involved kidnapped children. “It’s really awful. These con artists feed on their victims’ hopes and then they get crushed,” says Special Agent Patrick B. Sullivan, who worked an adoption fraud case out of Florida in 2001. In fact, the FBI often calls on its Office for Victims Assistance to help the victims. In the Florida case, a woman contacted over a dozen victims through an Internet site for people wanting to adopt. She claimed she knew women about to give birth, then asked for either small administrative fees or for money to help the birth mother with expenses. “She milked them along, raking in the money, until they figured out they were being taken,” Sullivan said. In the Indiana case, Victoria Farahan approached the director of a new local adoption ministry and said she could provide healthy newborns from Hospital 31 in Moscow. She provided pictures of the babies—which turned out to be pictures of her own children. She also sent the victims e-mails during her “trips” to Russia. “Farahan was very good at sprinkling in little bits of truth,” said Special Agent Steven T. Secor, who led the investigation. “She was very convincing. And she was dealing with couples that wanted babies and were willing to overlook some things.” She eventually duped six couples out of a total of $97,500. On July 17, Farahan pled guilty to two counts of mail fraud and five counts of wire fraud. The monetary losses are just the beginning of the toll the scams take . Filled with hope, victims often decorate nurseries, renovate their homes, or buy bigger houses. Some plan for maternity leave or even quit their jobs. “It’s heartbreaking,” said Special Agent Darin L. Werkmeister, who led an investigation of a woman in Philadelphia who defrauded at least 44 sets of prospective parents out of $215,000 in the ‘90s. “People will eventually recover from the financial loss. But the emotional trauma was much worse. For some victims, it’s like losing a child.” So how can families seeking to adopt protect themselves? Do your homework. Most states require agencies and facilitators to be licensed. Don’t rely solely on the Internet for research. Meet the agency or facilitator in person. Ask for documentation and references. Be skeptical if agencies or individuals say they have shortcuts. Hire your own social worker to interview the birthmother. For international adoptions, check with the U.S. Department of State for tips and more information. ↑ |
| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 3:51 PM |
| Untill yu KNOW what you are talking about...... GO AWAY *&^%$.......And YES, I'm PROUDLY using my emotions now! ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:00 PM |
| "Until I know what I am talking about?" What are you referring to? The above articles are examples of actual cases. I am referring to real people. I didn't make anything up. ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:00 PM |
| "Until you know what you are talking about?" What are you referring to? The above articles are examples of actual cases. I am referring to real people. I didn't make anything up. ↑ |
| Name: Carolyn | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:01 PM |
| Luckey- How dare you question Jody who is the sweetest person on this planet ? She has more smarts and common sense then you will ever have. Most of these adoption scamers are just criminals with no consciences, or total liers. You cannot avoid crossing their paths one time or another. The first time I was scammed, my agency didn't realize it was a scam. I was the one who figured it out. And that is the adaoption agency that you are always sticking up for so much. Don't harass my friend Luckey, it will not be tolerated. ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:02 PM |
| I think the fact that you are getting so upset about practical advice, that if used would protect you, is cause for concern. Have you considered counseling? ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:04 PM |
| Carolyn, Read my original post. What is wrong with this advice? I am questioning why codyjody would become this upset about advice that most people would agree with. ↑ |
| Name: Carolyn | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:07 PM |
| Couseling? You have got to be kidding me! If anyone needs counseling it is you! You have been asked countless times by numerous members of this board why you are here. You have never responded........... If you won't get counseling, how about you repeat a dozen times.......... " I am a troll, I am a troll, I am a troll.............." ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:08 PM |
| Carolyn, I am not harrassing your friend. I posted a comment from another user warning against some of the things going on in this unmonitored forum. I think you should read all of the posts. I have not been sarcastic or name calling once. However, your friend has. ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:11 PM |
| Also, Carolyn, this board is a public forum. ↑ |
| Name: Carolyn | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:17 PM |
| I think you are allowing yourself to be scammed. Online adoption fraud is a big business. I recommend licensed adoption agencies. ---------------------- ----------------------------------- --------------------------- Tellin g Jody that she is allowing herself to be scammed, is harassment, no matter what you want to call it. And secondly, she was scammed, as I was, USING adoption agencies! So what is your defense to that ? That is exactly why we are networking on our own; it doesn't make the least bit of difference if we go solely through adoption agencies. THe best scammers still scam, and you can't avaoid them. They are criminals. And people at agencies are human and make mistakes, just like the rest of us. So I still say that paying $30K is still wasted money, better used paying for children's educations. ↑ |
| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:17 PM |
| Luckey, Its not really your business...BUT...... The second time we were scammed, It was through a licensed agency. The potential Birthmom, had no intentions on placing....EVER! The fourth time we were scammed, It was by a lady that was running a licensed agency, she had pretended to be a potential birthmom herself....... BOTH WERE FULLY LICENSED AGENCIES!.... This is what I'm talking about when I said you have NO CLUE! We all have seen the articles you have posted, way befor you even came around here.... Youare teaching us NOTHING,,,other than the fact... you have no heart! ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:19 PM |
| Carolyn, I am not going to fight with you. I still agree with the advice as expressed in the above articles. The more you protect yourself, the less chances of being scammed. ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:21 PM |
| "So how can families seeking to adopt protect themselves? Do your homework. Most states require agencies and facilitators to be licensed. Don’t rely solely on the Internet for research. Meet the agency or facilitator in person. Ask for documentation and references. Be skeptical if agencies or individuals say they have shortcuts. Hire your own social worker to interview the birthmother. For international adoptions, check with the U.S. Department of State for tips and more information." ↑ |
| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:33 PM |
| Do your homework. Most states require agencies and facilitators to be licensed. ... ******We did our homework...we used an agency that was established in the early 80's...highly recommended too! Don’t rely solely on the Internet for research. Meet the agency or facilitator in person. Ask for documentation and references.... *****We did not even have a computer at the time we met with the agency, from our second scam....Met with them in person, we saw documentation and talked to 3 references..... Be skeptical if agencies or individuals say they have shortcuts. ****** neither of the agencies told us they had short cuts. It is not as "cut and dry" as you think it is Luckey....This is the reason I tell you you have NO CLUE! ↑ |
| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:37 PM |
| Quote: The more you protect yourself, the less chances of being scammed. ... We did all the "things" you recommended in your post....we were still scammed...... Luckey, it happens...every where! No matter what you think! ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:38 PM |
| I never said it was cut and dry. Those recommendations can help protect couples. I didn't say they are a guarantee. ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:39 PM |
| I think maybe you need to step back from this for awhile. I also think that taking precautions, although not a guarantee, is a good idea. ↑ |
| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:41 PM |
| you are right...BUT YOU DID SAY... Name: luckey_in_life • Date: 11/03/2006 10:35:48 You seem like you make decisions based on emotions rather than common sense. If you have been scammed 4 times in one year, it is because you allowed it to happen. You know nothing about my husband and I.....Do you even care that you say hurtfull things to people here? ↑ |
| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:44 PM |
| Name: luckey_in_life • Date: 11/03/2006 11:39:25 I think maybe you need to step back from this for awhile. Excuse me??? I have made great friends from this forum, We all enjoyed it much more before you came...Maybe you should take your own advise!!!? You never did tell us why you came here in the first place???... TROLL...... Can you say it? ↑ |
| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:47 PM |
| Name: momof1 Title: Luckey_in_life...no one wants you here...please leave I don't understand why you keep going on about this. Why don't you just leave, no one wants you hear. You Have nothing postive to say, why do you even care. How does any of this affect you. I would really like to know why you are writing all of this....here is your chance to explain in your own words. HHHMMMM.... ↑ |
| Name: luckey_in_life | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 4:52 PM |
| codyjody, This original post was not directed at you. It was a post in general about precautions. Your first reaction was sarcastic. Being scammed 4 times in one year also indicates to me that a new tactic of adopting would probably be a good idea. Four times is a lot. My opinion. Also, I believe the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. It seems to me your definition of a troll is anyone who states anything that is opposite of what you believe. If you want a private board for you and your friends, I suggest you go create one. ↑ |
| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 5:09 PM |
| 90% of the posts that you have responded to, were NOT directed to you either.......you are the one that brings up the fact this is a public board! I was not being sarcastic...I was speaking the truth! Would we not be more safe, under our beds away from the computer? There is only a few "tactics" for adopting....we have been scammed by all..... but out of country adoption. You believe the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? Well than, I guess I'm insane, We did the same thing over and over again....(pray that the lord introduce us, to our forever child) expecting different results. HHMMM waite, we did get different results....BABY COLLIN!.......NETWORKING ON OUR OWN.....ON THE NET!....... I'm enjoying my insane life!..... ↑ |
| Name: codyjody | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 5:18 PM |
| Internet troll In Internet terminology, a troll is someone who comes into an established community such as an online discussion forum, and posts inflammatory, rude, repetitive or offensive messages designed intentionally to annoy or antagonize the existing members or disrupt the flow of discussion, including the personal attack of calling others trolls. Often, trolls assume multiple aliase. ↑ |
| Name: nyjocool | Date: Nov 3rd, 2006 5:42 PM |
| Jody, Kudos to you for having the guts to keep going after getting scammed! It happens to agencies, lawyers who thought they were sure everything would be fine. You did nothing to be scammed, it was just bad luck. You did not give up and you found your son through an online connection. I think the internet is a wonderful way to meet people with common interests and I have learned so much from the people I have met since going online. Of course common sense needs to be used. I have no intention of hiding. I will search my next child by networking everyone-including online. I'm fearless. I would even love to pass birthmother situations that may not be right for me onto other prospective adoptive parents!! The internet is a tool!!! Some people are too paranoid about scammers. Scammers exist everywhere. I'd have to stay in the confines of my house to be safe-and even that has risks. Jody and Carolyn-you go girl(s)!!!! ↑ |
